Tiff Christie
Welcome back to Cocktails Distilled. Today we're going to look at a new expression that has been released from a brand that first let us know that, yes, you can distill non-alcoholic spirits. Seedlip.
Launched in December last year, this fourth expression, Notas de Agave, is a seamless blend of zesty lime, prickly pear and agave flavours.
Capitalising on the worldwide surge for all things agave, the expression brings an herbal and fruity aroma with vanilla and citrus notes and a slight heat finish with the addition of peppercorn.
To learn more about the expression and how it can be used, we talked to Seedlip founder, Ben Branson Branson, about flavour, choice, and the changing face of non-alc.
Thank you for joining us, Ben
Ben Branson
That is an amazing intro, Tiff. Thanks so much for that.
Tiff Christie
Now, it's been a while since Seedlip released a new expression, so the obvious question to ask is why the radio silence?
Ben Branson
Yeah, good. Well, we've definitely not been silent working in the background. I think Seedlip launched 2015. That was Seedlip Spice. We launched Seedlip Garden in the UK in 2016, and we launched Seedlip Grove in the UK in 2018. And there were various rollouts to other
We've been really particular with how we create a new product when we launch it, where we launch it, and why we launch it. And so there are 47,000 edible plants, Tiff, and the combinations when you're not under any kind of rules and restrictions of what flavours can go together and what ingredients you can use, the combinations are kind of infinite. And...
We very much believe that we should do things at the right time for the right reason. And therefore with Notas de Agave, yes, it's taken us a bit longer to figure out, and, but doing an exclusive for the US, for the US audience, yeah, with what we believe at the right time and with the right product, I think, rather than here's another product, here's another product, here's another product. And getting swept down that sort of, I think, dangerous path of just because you can means you should when it comes to new products.
Tiff Christie
Now, from what I understand, creating an agave is one of the hardest flavours to replicate in a non-alc format. How difficult did you find this to achieve?
Ben Branson
We've got four products in our range now. And Seedlip Spice obviously takes on that kind of aromatic spicier profile. Seedlip Garden moves us into like a more herbal profile. Seedlip Grow focuses on kind of more of a citrus profile. With Agave, we wanted to kind of lean into some of that kind of… fruity, earthy kind of flavour profile. And so that is difficult. It's not just about adding tropical fruits or making something that, I don't know, it doesn't feel as grown up and as sophisticated. And, you know, there are amazing ingredients in Notas de Agave, from prickly pear to… the Damiana herb, which has got so much richness and history steeped into it. So yeah, it's a balancing act when you want to focus on six key ingredients in a blend and do something that has a real place and purpose for different kinds of drinks that is different from the rest of the range. That's really tricky. And agave as a plant is not an out-and-out strong flavour like allspice berries, for example. And so, yeah, ensuring that we got that blend just right, that we were really happy with was, yeah, a lot of trial and error, as is the case in non-alcoholic.
Tiff Christie
Unlike the first three expressions, notice is unnumbered. Are we to assume that you got the recipe right on the first try?
Ben Branson
So the numbers on Spice, Garden and Grove relate to the dominant ingredient and you've got label space to think about. So with Notas de Agave, we've got three words on the label. And actually, just, I guess, just because we did doesn't mean we have to go forward.
The numbers were great on Spice Garden and Grove, but with Notas de Agave, I think given how much seedlip has grown and how much the category has developed, we kind of …we took the decision not to put a number on there. We still have, you know, we still got this incredible illustration of a hummingbird which pollinates agave plants. And we still got that kind of beautiful rich combination of featuring our ingredients on the front. But Notas de Agave's three words, we wanted to look at label space we didn't want to bring any more complexity to it. And yeah, I wanted to kind of take a different direction with it, I guess, and not have a number on there.
Tiff Christie
Can you go into a little bit of detail about the sort of experimentation and research that the brand did to arrive at Notas?
Ben Branson
Yeah, so the origins of this project really go back to like 2018, 2019. It's been a love-and-hate relationship. And it is a love-and-hate relationship, I find, with any new product and any product that we're creating. Because we're not...there's not really a lot of reference points for what we're doing. And we're working in a new category that has changed tremendously already since 2015, but is in fast growth, high interest, very dynamic. And we're kind of building the plane as we're flying it, if that's the right terminology. So the project began with, hey, look, we've got some really exciting things happening in the US market with Seedlip. And this was around probably just pre Diageo's majority acquisition of Seedlip. So I'm still a shareholder, I'm still involved. We started to think about a product that was really for the US and for that consumer, obviously...the agave spirit world and tequila has enjoyed kind of tremendous growth, you know, over the last 10 years. And so, serves that weren't happening, cocktails that weren't really that as popular elsewhere in the world, the Margarita, Paloma, Ranch Water, those style of serves, we were really seeing popping in the US. And we were starting to...use Seedlip spice and seed lip garden and seed lip grove in a kind of in a non-out margarita style serve or in a Paloma style serve and we're enjoying amazing traction with that and so actually the more time I spent in the US and the more our business grew in the US and then you know leading up to the majority acquisition then we started to kind of formulate it as a project of this would be an amazing project to do in the U S for the U S and really kind of lean into, um, agave culture and lean into these amazing non-alc-ers that we can create, um, with a new seed of expression. So yeah, it was, you know, we wanted to pick the right time. We launched January this year, which is perfect.
We are very well set up from a distribution perspective, a team resource perspective, and that all counts for a lot when launching new products because it gives them the best possible chance of success. So yeah, it's been an interesting process of lots of challenges, lots of tweaks, lots of testing. Lots of different formulations, let's try it with bartenders, let's try it with the public, let's try it with some of our customers, but to get to a place that we've got to, I mean, even choosing what animal we had was painful, you know, what animal are we gonna have? So yeah, new product development is never a smooth process, regardless of whether we're independent or we're part of a bigger company. I don't think anyone would say that it's a smooth, fast process, but we're, yeah, I'm really proud of where we got to.
Tiff Christie
With the term agave in the name, people will, of course, assume that it's a tequila replacement. Should they be looking at it that way?
Ben Branson
The short answer is no. The second answer is that people can interpret non-alc spirits, I guess, in their own personal way, and if they think that it's going to or meant to taste like tequila, then that's up to them. We're really clear that we're not a replacement. We're not a non-alc tequila.
We're not trying to be a non-out tequila. We're not trying to be a non-out gin or a non-out vodka. We're trying to offer amazing, unique, complex blends of wonderful ingredients that provide the base for delicious and tasty, sophisticated non-out cocktails for people when they, for whatever reason, don't wanna drink alcohol.
And so, yes, Seedlip Notas de Agave is amazing in a ranch water-style serve. Yes, it's wonderful in Paloma. Yes, it makes an amazing kind of seed-lit Margarita. And we wanna kind of lean in and own that, but the nuance is we are not trying to taste or imitate or pretend to be tequila.
Tiff Christie
Do you think that there could be or will be a certain amount of confusion over that in the US?
Ben Branson
Too early to tell, I really hope not. And actually judging by the early performance that we're seeing both in the trade, I've just come back from a week in LA and Austin to really exciting markets for Seedlip, introducing Notas de Agave to both the public consumers and also to the trade. And I tell you the one,
The one kind of outtake I take is three words, I get it. And that is amazing. So the understanding from the trade and from consumers to be like, I get it, I get what it is. And then to see people tasting it and trying it and enjoying it and not comparing it and not kind of not getting confused.
If we were doing this eight years ago, when I was in my kitchen and on my own, trying to tell people about distillation and non-alcoholic spirits, we probably would have been met with a really different response. But this category is really starting to establish itself and Seedlip available in the 41 states now across the US.
The amazing bars, restaurants, hotels, the non-AUK bottle shops that have popped out of nowhere. We've got an amazing kind of distribution base of customers that, yeah, I'm really proud of and that seem to get it and they wanna support non-AUK and they wanna offer great options. And yeah, that is really starting to gather momentum, which I am chuffed about.
Tiff Christie
Let's talk a little bit about the flavour
Ben Branson
What I take from it is I get kind of this delicious bright fruity upfront kind of prickly pear and agave line that feels kind of adult and the right level of kind of those sort of tropical notes. I get all the kind of vanilla and Damiana…qualities and character through the middle. And then I'm left with this lovely sort of little peppery bite from the peppercorns that we use just to get a little bit of a prickle. That's what I take, but I, you know, I taste things not in comparison to other things in some ways, and especially creating products. I’m really keen to respect and celebrate the individual ingredients. And so I would, I'd hope that Seedlip Notas de Agave really appeals to people who like drinking agave based spirits. Of course I, of course, I want that. And for people who love drinking Margaritas and Palomas and ranch waters. And so far, from what I know, and what we're learning, that's really resonating and people are really enjoying it.
Tiff Christie
Now in your promotion of the spirit as it came out, a lot of the cocktails that the brand was citing were tequila-based drinks. Are there other ways that people can use the liquid? Are there other flavors outside of that realm that work really well with it?
Ben Branson
Yeah, there are. And I think one of our key principles that's always stood us in good stead is to focus on the styles of cocktails. So whether that's martini style drinks or margarita style drinks or sours or flips or just high balls or whatever it is, we've found that that's familiar to people. And that resonates and they have an understanding of what kind of glass that might come in, what kind of flavour profile that might be, might it be carbonated, might it be stirred, might it be shaken. I think we found that having an espresso martini with seedless spice or a margarita with Notas de Agave, just kind of people understand what they might be getting.
And so that's been brilliant. Not as the agave as a flavour profile itself. I was lucky enough to be asked to go to the Porsche driving experience in LA when I was there. And they've got this beautiful restaurant over, sorry. I know. I mean, I...
Tiff Christie
at you being fenced.
Look at you, being fancy.
Ben Branson
I didn't get to drive any cars, I must add, but they've got this amazing driving experience and this huge track and this great balcony looking out over it. And they've got this beautiful restaurant and it has a menu of seed-lit cocktails because people are usually going to eat and then drive. And so they're looking for something that's good, that's not out. And we did a competition with about 12 bartenders to create a Notas de Agave cocktail. And if they won, their drink would go on the menu and they'd get to go and do the driving experience. And it was amazing. It was amazing. Yeah, it was amazing to see the array of drinks that bartenders came up with. And in terms of what can go well with Notas de Agave, some of them took it in a tiki direction, which I thought was really cool. Like really lent into some of the kind of tropical notes. And some people took it into a margarita direction and played on those kind of lime and agave flavours. And some people just wanted to kind of go in a sour direction and lean in on some of the citrus and yeah, something shaken. And that worked really, really well as well. So I kind of, you know, all four in the liquids are these base blends of amazing ingredients that can be taken up, down and explored and that might be something simple that people are familiar with or it might be something really creative and different. And I think that's one of the beauties of non-alc and it's one of the beauties of non-alc cocktails is they are there for experimentation and it's about taste and it's about flavour and it's about the experience and I think that's yeah that's probably the most exciting aspect of being able to taste loads of different things and add lots of different ingredients that can change and influence the taste of the end drink.
Tiff Christie
Now the expression has been out for, I don't know, about a month. So it's still really early days, but what has the reaction of bartenders and the public been to it so far? It seems as if people are quite excited about what it can do.
Ben Branson
Yeah, I think it's a US exclusive and that is really exciting to a US audience. It's really fricking annoying, excuse my language, to the rest of the world. So, you know, I live in the UK. I know quite a few people in the trade in the UK and elsewhere. And so I've got a lot of direct messages on Instagram from bartenders, yeah, asking if they can get their hands on it or why can't they get their hands on it? Which is a nice problem to have, right? So yeah, it is early days. We're super chuffed with the reaction so far. Having been in market, you know, across two cities very recently with the product, doing like the most amazing food pairing dinner in Austin with insane chef, Philip Spear and his Mexican restaurant, Commodore. Like just, yeah, I left feeling really excited about not just their always opportunity in the US and the US is our biggest market.
It's on fire from a non-out perspective. And so, yeah, being able to release something for that market, yeah, I think we're all really encouraged about.
Tiff Christie
Now, a certain amount of, I would almost say, Hollywood glamour, even though he's an English actor, was given to the launch with the involvement of ex-Bridgerton star Regégeine Page. How did that come about?
Ben Branson
Yeah, Regé is a top man. Firstly, he's a big fan of Seedlip and he has been a big fan of Seedlip prior to anything working with him. He's been a really big fan of Seedlip and he really connects with it personally and having just had dinner with him and his wife a couple of weeks ago in LA, which is not something obviously that you do every day. And just hearing him talk and his approach to partnering and working with brands is very picky and he takes it really seriously. And he does want to, he wants to associate and partner with brands that personally resonate for him.
and a part of his world. And so as part of our kind of choose different campaign and as part of the Notas De Agave launch, it's amazing, it's amazing to have a wonderful actor who does things properly, takes things seriously, cares about the brand, personally drinks it, personally tells, his friends and people he knows about it and spends six months, you know, in LA every year and six months in the UK. Yeah, we're absolutely delighted about it. And I think it's absolutely what's required for Seedlip, especially in the US as we grow. We've been talking about it for probably over three years as to when the right time would be to really bring someone in of his stature and kind of prowess. And he's great. I don't know if you've seen the videos that he's done with Seedlip, but he's a magician and he's the perfect person to kind of partner with the brand in the US.
Tiff Christie
I must say that this release has, I mean, and not just because of Reggae, but this release has a different feel than your first three. How much of that is Diageo's involvement and how much of that is just the brand maturing over time?
Ben Branson
I mean, this is, this couldn't be more different than the other three releases, Tiff. You know, it's not me distilling bottles and taking them to London's oldest little garden in Chelsea nine o'clock in the morning, serving some seed-lit martinis to 10 or 11 bartenders. with the little bit of stock that I made. Or we did the launch for Seedlip Garden in a little bar in London and we had a florist and we did some kind of flowers with hops and peas. This is serious, right? This is not a startup launch. This is a, we are the leading non-alcoholic spirit in the US. According to YWSR 2023. And we are committing to a US exclusive with a product launch that we are, we as in me, Diageo, we are incredibly excited about. We want to invest in, we want to support and we wanna go big. And that's really different from where we were as a small kind of dynamic startup doing, yeah, doing kind of small piecemeal little kind of bits of launch events. No, no, this is this is grown up stuff, Tiff.
Tiff Christie
Yeah. This is a long way from you playing in your kitchen with John French's Art of Distillation, isn't it?
Ben Branson (28:05.418)
very, it is and it isn't, I still got the opportunity to kind of go and research Damiana and learn all about that herb and get familiar with prickly pear, which obviously we definitely do not grow in the UK. It's still provided me and, you know, obsess over details on the bottles here now with me of like early formulations. And yeah, it still gave me that same outlet of kind of creative creativity and expression and detail and kind of, yeah, still gave me all of that. But just having the platform built in the US and the distribution in place and working with amazing distributors and customers and the Diageo team has just made it, I don't know, it's just made it feel really proper and grown up and like we're really not letting a good idea down. And that's, yeah, that’s... I want Seedlip to grow and I want Non-Ouk to be a big, exciting, profitable, sustainable and aspirational category. And Seedlip has a real duty, I think, and responsibility within that to do that and lead that and drive that. And that's why I work with Diageo because little old me, I can't do it on my own. So working with Diageo means that's possible.
Tiff Christie
Last week we spoke to Bill from the Scottish non-alc brand Ferragaya and we asked him the question that I'm going to ask you now. Is the category where you thought it would be at this point?
Ben Branson
No. That's the short answer. I think IWSR’s latest figure on it were but something like 13 to 15 billion dollars globally. I'm amazed, you know, it's surreal at the kind of growth it's at and the size it's at, partly because I still think it's just getting started. And I really do feel like it is still really at the beginning and the early stages. And partly because, you know, I kind of, yeah, I can't believe that, you know, back in 2015, you could maybe get one non-alcoholic beer and maybe some grape juice in a wine bottle. And that was about it. And you couldn't get non-out cocktails. There weren't podcasts, there weren't influencers, there weren't shops, there weren't online retailers, there weren't magazines, there weren't conferences, festivals, books. And this is happening because of the internet and how fast ideas and movements can now travel. This is happening like globally. And that's, yeah, well, I mean, that's kind, but I, it is madness. It's kind of, it's brilliant. I mean, there's, I'm constantly dissatisfied Tiff, so there's loads of things wrong with it. But it's a
It's a very powerful movement that is snowballing and gathering momentum. And it's a long way off normalising, but yeah, I'm just, I'm very glad that the C-Lips are at the forefront of that.
Tiff Christie
Now, of course, the one question that the rest of the world outside the US is asking is when are they going to be able to get their hands on Notas de Agave? Or will they ever?
Ben Branson
Well, good question, Tiff. We're like, as you said before, we're a month into Notas de Agave's launch, so really early days and focus right now is the US.
Would I love to see not as the agave in other markets? Absolutely. The case study really needs to be the US. And so the guys, the team, everybody on the ground in the US knows that. And so really it's going and proving out this variant and its performance. And then we can take a view on whether that goes to other markets when, if at all. But yeah, I think it's an amazing liquid. So I, I would hope to see it in more markets, yeah, over the coming years.
Tiff Christie
Watch this space…
Ben Branson
watch this space.
Tiff Christie
Are you rolling it out across the US or is it already on all states?
Ben Branson
No, noto ste agave is not, it's available nationwide from seedlipdrinks.com forward slash US. So it's available across 50 states for the consumer. Trade wise, that rollout is starting to happen. Obviously in California and Texas, it's available. New York, it's absolutely available. Chicago, Miami. Those are kind of our hotspot key cities. But yeah, it will be rolling out over the coming months across the others.
Now if people want to learn more about Nodicea agave they can of course go to the Seedlip website which is Seedlipdrinks.com forward slash US.
Tiff Christie
Thank you. Or alternatively, connect with the brand via your socials.
Ben Branson
Yeah, so at Seedlipdrinks on Instagram, at Seedlip underscore Ben Branson on Instagram. That's our, yeah, that's the best way. Come find us, say hello. Buy Nurtis de Agave and tell us what you think. That would be wonderful.
Tiff Christie
All right, Ben Branson, well look, thank you very much for taking the time to speak with us.
Ben Branson
Thanks, Tiff.