Tiff Christie
Let's face it, the agave spirits market is crowded. So if you're looking to bring out a new tequila, you'd really better stand out.
Casa Obsidiana, a brand that was released at the end of last year, is looking to do that on several fronts. By incorporating elements of modern art, heritage and liquids substantially transformed by wine cask ageing.
The brand is looking to make its mark on the ultra-premium market, but the promises of all these elements are difficult to live up to.
We talked to co -founder Jean Charles Boisset about yeast strains, barrel regimes, and what it takes to cut through the noise.
Thank you for joining us, Jean Charles.
Jean-Charles Boisset
Thank you, Tiff. It's a great honour to be with you and what a great topic.
Tiff Christie
Now, anyone who knows your name would probably associate it with biodynamic wines. What has drawn you from grapes to the agave fields?
Jean-Charles Boisset
Well you're very kind to say that. Indeed, born in Burgundy, having made Chardonnay Pinot Noir all my life under organic and biodemic fashion and focusing on terroir, which is really the alchemy of the soil, the land, the plant and the climate.
I was obviously attracted to Agave because this is actually the same structure, the same idea, the same vision. All about the soil, that amazing volcanic soil of obviously tequila and Jalisco at large. Volcanic influence.
And this amazing plant that is the blue agave, the Weber agave, that is so unique with a DNA that is so special that makes me think of grapes. So those two parallels are really what made me think we've got to get into that space because it's exciting. It's like a really crafting line. So, as you grow the plant, you grow the grape. It takes a little longer to grow agave. It's seven years, but that's the ultimate time to actually harvest the best ever blue agave and get the best of the best, so this is really what attracts me. and someone who drinks fine wine would want to drink the finest agave as well, so your two and two work so well together
Tiff Christie
Now, you and your family have collaborated with the Beckman Gonzalez family, who have over 260 years of experience in making tequila. How did that come about?
Jean-Charles Boisset
We became friends 20 years ago and we had the opportunity to collaborate and be one of the first to bring tequila to the United States. You know, they have obviously an incredible legacy, a phenomenal family story that has really started Jalisco and Tequila as such. So it was obvious at the time to do something which we did. And then finally, three or four years ago, we decided to get back together to say, let’s be one of the leaders in the market, let's produce something which is that je ne sais quoi top end that will age, you know, wonderful I'm getting excited obviously, we're talking about agaves so I have some in front of me and we are you know bringing our skills together and they know how to grow it and distil it. We know how to distil and age. So we said, let's bring our two skills together and create something unbelievable. That is, from taste to quality to the flavour profile, to mixability, something that has never been done before. And we worked very, very hard over three or four years together on it. And this is why now Casas Obsidiana is out and tasting so amazingly and getting such great results.
Tiff Christie
Now, the tequila market, especially luxury tequila, is fairly saturated. How difficult has it been to bring out a new brand and considering the prestige of both your families, meet expectations?
Jean-Charles Boisset
Well, saturated is one thing. Nobody ever waits for you at any given time to do something that is different, that is, inspirationally, a different vision. So I always believe it's important to do something, always, if you have a point of differentiation. So the saturation is, yes, very much there in terms of just tequila out there with a label.
The one with a true concept that is an estate concept that is made by true people, so much into the world of tequila and wine has never been done. And people who really understand the distillation to the ageing process have never been done to this dimension. So we're really married our many, many centuries on each side of the world of tradition into what we do, and we bring it together. This is why I think it's so exciting to have obviously Casa Obsidiana out there because we brought what we know how to do very well ageing. You know, after fermenting wine, you basically bring wine into barrels, beautiful French oak barrels that come from the best forests of France. This is exactly what we did the best forest being Troncet, the centre of France, centre north of France, and really making the best barrels so from there, the collaboration really started on saying we could bring the barrels from France who have aged wonderful Napa Valley Chardonnay as an example, keep the barrel as is and use that phenomenal barrel to age the tequila.
So we have obviously three techniques to do so and the result is mind-boggling because the addition of those stop and burgundy barrels is bringing another dimension that you could never fathom and imagine into a tequila. So, it's taking us on a journey that is very unique. So the saturated market, it is for someone who is a MeToo product, but when you bring so much to the category, when you bring something so different in both taste, mouthfeel, length and longevity on the palate, you are very different.
So people want different things. They love tequila because everybody loves tequila today. Brings a smile to all of us when you pronounce the word even tequila. And then when we taste ours, the purpose was really to create a tequila you drink neat. So either as is or with a beautiful ice cube and you sip on it. And the moment you start sipping and enjoying it, this is where you start dreaming of this beautiful estate of tequila and a different world.
So we're here to take you on a contemporary Mexican journey of really feeling New Mexico and this beautiful Mexico that we love so much that is so well represented by the Beckman family.
Tiff Christie
Now, speaking of the Beckman family, the agave itself is growing at the base of El Volcán Tequila. Describe the environment … what do you see?
Jean-Charles Boisset
It is in the town of Tequila, if you wish, which is 50 minutes from Guadalajara. Now it's actually 90 minutes to from Puerto Vallarta. So the good news is with the new highways, it's very easy to come to Tequila. You arrive in this magnificent estate. You have a breathtaking view of a volcano after one mile of entering the estate. The estate is over six hectares of contiguous blue agave plants. So you have that rich reddish soil that is beautiful and brings and absorbs the intense light and the heat, obviously this area of Mexico. You have obsidian everywhere, which is a glass formation that comes from lava, eruptions, or volcanic soil. So that beautiful deep grey black shiny glass formation is all over the soil. Then you have the beautiful agave plant that grows with those irresistible deep green bluish leaves, and this is the landscape where you have an endless parterre of blue agave and then the volcano at the end I mean it's absolutely gorgeous you want to caress the plant, you want to walk the terroir and that's where you feel wind to a very unique place. So the sense of place terroir I was talking about is that incredible soil and the obsidian that creates such a wonderful soil composition that is extremely important for the root of the blue agave. That soil associated with that climate and the plant itself, the Weber blue agave makes what terroir is all about, that uniqueness that is so phenomenal for Casa Obsidiana. So you there, Tiff, and you are dreaming. You literally want to take a seat, have a glass of tequila and reflect and even have a bite of food.
And look at the landscape; you feel like you have been transported into another phenomenal, simple, but extremely well-thought-out place. The colours, the landscape, the sky, you know, all that mixing in create the alchemy of the colours of the bottle, in fact. You know, that very nice cream colour of the Blanco, the phenomenal light green colour of the Reposado and the rich rusty red colour of the Agnero which is really that volcanic soil so all of it together makes it absolutely so special, so we encourage people to come to the estate because it's beautiful and the moment you see it you realise wow this tequila is going to be different because this environment is different.
And as you know, the land is key. You refer to organic and bio-dynamic farming. This is what it's all about, the sense of place and how we cultivate organically those plants is what brings the magic to the liquid thereafter.
I hope I took you there, even though we are on a podcast. I hope you can visualise it in your mind.
Tiff Christie
Now, winemakers love to talk about terroir, but spirit drinkers know a lot of that gets lost in the distilling and the aging. So, to your mind, which is more important to the flavour, the volcanic soil or the barrels?
Jean-Charles Boisset (12:11.212)
I believe both. You know, one should not overly dominate the other. The volcanic soil helps the root system of the agave to really feel the nutrients from the underground so below as above.
There is as much surface below the agave plant as you see above. Very similar to an oak tree. So that's essential to get that incredible flavour, the richness and the density after you cook it and you distill it of the agave. The oak, you know, is here to guide the evolution of the liquid and to bring beautiful notes that came from the Chardonnay barrel fermentation and malolactic fermentation in the barrel. You have a deposit of crystal within the barrels that we keep intact from the ageing of the vine and the wines that bring not just flavour but spirituality, energy, and magnetism to the actual liquid and to the tequila. So it's a whole alchemy of different variables that makes it so special. I really believe one plus one equals ten, and the two together is phenomenal.
And I would tell you, you would take an agave planted in another area of Mexico, and it would not obviously be tequila, but it would not taste the same. That specific sense of place, that volcanic soil that has been here for 15 million years, is really making it so special from a taste profile. Then the aging brings layers and layers of dimension, density, richness, balance and length into the taste profile that makes it so so unique, really much so like a fine wine. To that point, if a lot of people coming to dinner with us today want to have tequila as a match and paired with the main course, not always just wine and a lot of people today would tell you, maybe I'm not into wine tonight what about if we just did tequila and that's a lot of fun as well so the beauty of the oak ageing helps you to pair the tequila magnificently with food.
And that's hiding the dimension you look for: not just sipping tequila as a cocktail before dinner, but with dinner and after dinner. I mean, when you taste the Agnero, which has been over 14 months of in the finest oak forest of France, you have the level of the finest cognacs, Armagnacs, finest bourbons or whiskey. You know, lingering finish, layers and layers of taste, of leather, of caramel, of incredible secondary and tertiary flavour that invade your mouth and your nose as the flavours and you're here to dream. So I think it's again as a conclusion the association of both that really creates that magical dimension.
Tiff Christie
You mentioned the volcanic giving the tequila a different taste than agave grown in other areas of Mexico. Can you describe that flavour?
Jean-Charles Boisset (15:44.332)
Absolutely. So I think what you have, which is really incredible, as we wait seven years to harvest the agave, which is going through a massive selection, which means we mark the beautiful agave and we replant them. So it's literally like the male and female association of the two that are growing the next agave within the soil where we physically are. So one agave gives birth to another, which we replant right within the same geographical area within the same contiguous area. So we create a lot of continuity here. Then you harvest it; you cook it at roughly 79 Celsius temperature and in very slow cooking for roughly almost two and a half to three days. then you have that beautiful mash that then you distil. And we have, very fortunately, thanks to the Beckman family, a proprietary yeast. A yeast that has been in the family for over half a century. That is their own yeast that brings that endogenous flavour to the extraordinary distillation and the tequila. From there on, we age it. And I think what is so exciting about the barrel composition, to answer your question directly, is volume. It tames the alcohol level. For me, I'm extremely as a wine drinker and champagne drinker and maker, I'm very sensitive to the alcohol aftertaste. I actually cannot stand it because if you fail in distillation and winemaking, you feel the alcohol. If you succeed, the alcohol is there to keep multi-dimensional flavour.
So as a great distiller, great winemaker, it's there to hold the drink together, not to be smell or to have, you know, a overly powerful aftertaste. So, the aging process is what makes it so unique. So you have density, richness, and tiff, what is so important is balance. Often, I taste, and I've tasted every single tequila in the market because we do comparative tasting, comparative analysis, and comparative lab analysis. Ours is pure. We don't have to compensate by adding sugar after distillation as many do. Many do add sugar. It's like, you know when you cook, and you create a sauce, you add salt and sugar, and it creates that beautiful flavour profile. We don't need to cheat. The actual phenomenal Extraordinary quality comes from the agave, the distillation and the yeast. Then the ageing brings that volume, that perfect ageing that brings balance, equilibrium, length, the cross, width and length, like a fine wine. And it keeps coming. So for me, what is very important is 1, 2, 3. The approach, the mid-palate and the length. If you have Cassoxidiana Pure. What I love is the length of it. It's what we call in professional terms Retroalfaction. So as we're looking at each other you swallow. Behind your sinus and your brain the tequila flavor still travels or the wine or the champagne or the cognac any drinks and you still smell and feel it for another 30 to 45 seconds. That is that length that the barrel brings that is absolutely second to none and it has to be a burgundy barrel that has H, Chardonnay and eventually Pied -de -Noir as well.
Tiff Christie
Let's look go through each of the expressions to get a little bit more detail. Tell us first about the blanco.
Jean-Charles Boisset
So the Blanco is distilled and 15 days after distillation, put immediately on the finishing side into a burgundy-based Troncet Forest barrel, typically François Frère or Taranso or Bertomieu those are the coopers that are the most expensive barrels in the world, the finest barrels, so we put the Blanco you could call it even the plateau for a maximum of 16 days which is the limit to still qualify as a Blanco, and this adds a lot of finesse to it a lot of vivaciousness a lot of vibrancy to it but a polished finish that makes it phenomenal on the palate for me
I adore the Blanco. I need to tell you I keep it cold in the fridge or even in the freezer. I don't even add ice because I don't want to dilute it. And I think the ratio of alcohol and liquid is amazing. And I put in the wine glass and I sip it. I adore it. So I think the 15, 16 days of oak aging is adding that density that is needed in Blanco.
For me a Blanco just pure out of the tank gets a little too rough on the edges for me. It's a little too green, it's a little too astringent, it has a bite that I'm not a fan of and I think the alcohol kicks in a little too high for me. So that's why this dimension makes it extremely suave, very eloquent, very similar to a nice lingering French kiss.
Tiff Christie
And what about the Reposado?
Jean-Charles Boisset
Well, four months. So same process, but then it stays for four months. So obviously here you have the crystal, the vanilla, the honey, the deep honey feel. You have the leather; you have obviously the chocolate, you have the liquorice, you have even the Madagascar vanilla that is felt into the barrel after ageing wine that really comes slowly but surely within the alcohol. So I think the Reposado is the very best in the market. I think nothing comes close. And I'm not trying to be pretentious, but the alchemy of the two, the agave, the distillation process, the natural yeast used as the strain yeast of the Beckman family, plus our barrel makes it insane.
And on top of it, if you want to do a cocktail with it, I mean, it's out of this world. I mean, whether it's a very simple margarita to a Paloma or anything you want to do, as complex as you want, it's amazing for me.
Tiff, I'm a purist. I like them neat because I like to really understand what has happened in the distillation because I love to analyse. I've been making wine since I'm five or six years old and tasting wine since really I'm nine or ten years old being born in the vineyards of Burgundy. So I love to think it's like at a restaurant.
I analyse the sauce. I'm a big fan of sauces. This is why I have to constantly be on a diet because I love drinking or eating the sauce and trying to find the complexity of the association, the marriage of all the ingredients. So I think the marriage of the blue agave, our distillation, you know, propertory yeast and the aging of the barrel is explosive.
You know, and it's round and it's rich and it's long lasting. Again, no alcohol bites, nothing. So you drink it, you sip it, you have a cigar with it. I mean, it's heaven. You know, there's nothing better. And you are under a beautiful sky. And you know, I think you're the closest to heaven.
Tiff Christie
And lastly, the Añejo.
Jean-Charles Boisset (24:26.732)
Well, the Añejo is 14 months of ageing plus. So here you really have secondary tertiary flavour.
So you have, in addition to everything else, dry raisin, dry apricot. You have, you know, a lot in the family of the Evolve Leathers. You have deep, rich caramel. You have bonbon of the Rhone Valley. I mean, you really have beautiful wood notes that are really taking you to some of the most elaborated rums or whiskeys or cognacs as well. Beautiful wood notes and the wood notes of the almonds, the dry raisin, a little bit of the pecans even on the finish. So I'm a big fan of it as well as dry aged apricot, you know, which is very nice. Corinthian raisin that you've dried outside under the sun that you let melt on your tongue. I mean, all those flavours come into play. So I'm obviously a big fan because for me, I’m bullish about the extra Añejo that we are working on, which would be obviously 24 to 36 months Because the more you age the more complexity you bring as well So if you want something fresh and exciting and vibrant and vivacious, you go for
You know, the Blanco, the Plateau, it's spontaneous, it's exciting, it's vibrant, it's magnetic. Then you want something more evolved with more patine and richness and roundness, you go for the Reposado. And then obviously you're going to be, you know, enjoying a great long evening and the Agnero really, I feel, is so exciting. It's the level of Cognac. The only difference is Cognac is obviously grapes, and here at Agave.
Tiff Christie (26:52.046)
I was surprised to hear you earlier mention cocktails that can be made with this. I would have thought from your descriptions that you would have seen it purely as a sipping tequila.
Jean-Charles Boisset (27:07.308)
It's very true, but the culture of today, which is so exciting, is a lot of the mixologist, a lot of, you know, the whole generation wants to play at home creating cocktails. So if you do it with natural ingredients, it's amazing. Even just simply rosemary, basil, or take it mint, or, you know, just salt all around, or what have you. I mean, for me, I'm a purist. I...
I love to enjoy things in their natural form. I'm not necessarily an enormous cocktail drinker. I like to have all my alcohol typically as a sipping dimension. But if you're into cocktails, obviously, you have one of the finest of the finest. And the beauty is, Tiff, we don't add any sugar. So the percentage of gram per litre is very low versus a lot of other brands out there. So we distill and then we age. We don't add sugar, which is the case of many other brands that people enjoy because it's so rich and dense. You know, ours is absolutely pure. We give you the purest form of it.
Tiff Christie (28:29.294)
Now you mentioned earlier about the bottles and as I said in the intro they do border a little on modern art. Tell us how the design came and the ideas behind that came about.
Jean-Charles Boisset (28:44.556)
It came on the walk of the estates that I described to you earlier as we were walking on that soil. We saw that earth that had to give more, and we said let's go with a ceramic bottle, you know, ceramics and clay. And that beautiful earth of Mexico is very well known for amazing sculpture. So we got very fortunate that we met some of the most amazing artists making sculpture. And we have very close by one of the best manufacture of clay and ceramic, whether it's tiles, whether it's bottles, whether it's anything you can imagine. And we got extremely energized. We got extremely bullish about doing it. So the association of the artist and the three different bottles, so your back bar is beautiful. The Blanco is one shape, the Reposado is another. And obviously the Agnero as well. The Añejo makes you think at a beautiful, you know, temple of the Yucatan, the influence of the Mayans and Incas. The Reposado makes you think about a beautiful cubism, you know, artistic expression of Picasso. And then, of course, the Blanco is the reverse shape of an agave plant as you plant it as a brand new, fresh, young plant. So we went as well with the tone colour of the agave as you shave it, it becomes that beautiful white cream colour.
This is the Blanco. As you look at the Agave plant, it's that beautiful green -blueish color. That is the colour of the Reposado. And obviously the soil is that reddish soil volcanic. That is the Añejo. On top of it, Tiff, we have this beautiful obsidian glass formation all over the estate, as I mentioned. So we said, let's harvest them from the estate, create a mirror as the Mayans were using the obsidian to reflect positive energy and to look at themselves as the French did on the lake, on water they used the obsidian to reflect energy, positivity and a spiritual vision. So this is exactly what we did, and each of the relationships of the obsidian which is a beautiful disc, a circle is of the golden ratio proportion. So we've maintained that as well on the bottle. So the golden ratio is the divine proportion is Phi 1 .617022 which is the perfect shape that you find in Mother Nature. You know the sunflower, the Nautilus, the beehive. So we've taken as well that proportion to further energize yourself as the drinker and of course the liquid that is inside. So clay plus obsidian equals a very powerful and superior energetic feel.
Tiff Christie
With the nature, the arts, the Mexican culture, all of these things that you're trying to bring together, who is your market?
Jean-Charles Boisset
You, people who really understand the finest, people who really are into a sense of aesthetic, a sense of design, a sense of beauty, a sense of spirituality, a sense of, you know, being surrounded with beautiful things and people who adore very high quality, well -made distilled beverage, people who drink the finest bourbons and whiskies and brandies, people who are into a certain art of life, hedonist people who love beautiful things. That's really who we're after. Whoever they are, wherever they're from, it doesn't matter their skin colour, religion, or where they're located; those are the people we want to be part of our world.
And those are the people we like to interact with anyhow.
Tiff Christie
Now, the range has been out for a little over six months. What has consumer reaction been to it?
Jean-Charles Boisset (33:24.844)
has been tremendous. So consumers can order it online at cassobsidiana.com, which is our beautiful website. So you click, click, click, and we ship it directly to you. They can order it through a variety of retail partners throughout California and now Texas. So we've launched in a very methodic way. We wanted to start really with California and then expand as early as this week to Texas. And the response has been great at the mixology level, at the bar level, at the restaurant level, and which I'm very pleased of at the chef level. The chefs are very excited about it and are more and more presenting bites that are going with, of course, the tequila. So I think it has been so far a very, very strong win -win. It's obviously not an inexpensive product because it's $200 for the Blanco, $250 for the reposado and 350 for the Añejo. So it's not that cheap, but it's very exciting.